@Xedite I love your mockup, except under breed that should be labeled pronouns, not gender. Pronouns are associated with gender, but they're not the same. But I love the use of the mars and venus symbols instead of the words male and female respectively!

i like sire/dam as a solution.

i dont support having the marker be just the venus/mars symbol with no text as a lot of people dont know or cant remember which symbol is which. accessibility should come first and foremost which means there should be text description, not just a symbol that could confuse people.

other pet sites are moving away from the male/female dichotomy as well. paw borough is going to have venus and mars be the actual names of the two sexes. pixel cats end uses “winds” (essentially blood types) instead of sex. there are definitely ways to work around this, it just requires a bit of creativity.

for the record “carrier” would also give me massive dysphoria as a afab person lol, it would come across as “this body's main function is to carry another” so no thank you. i think sire/dam or another solution entirely would be good

I don't like the mockups that put player designated pronouns/gender over in the details box, as I really think that should stay strictly mechanical game information to limit confusion. I also agree with Kuro that there needs to be an actual word and not just a symbol to help with accessibility.

I do like using sire/dam as a potential way to remove male/female, and I'm not opposed to that. Perhaps pair it with the mars/venus symbol so people who aren't familiar with the terms can make sense of the symbols on the den pages.

I don't like “pose” as a potential descriptor though, since I would personally really like the ability to eventually swap poses without changing sex.

May I suggest “Type” as the descriptor? Short for mating type, which is how it's often referred to in species that don't use a male/female reproductive system. In other words, player selected pronouns would still show up under the name like they do currently, and in the details box it would say something like “Type: Sire ♂”

Excellent points everyone! I do like those mockups, and i agree that to maintain accessibility any alternative terms or symbols should have text to match. So far i most enjoy the “Type” indicator Hawkfeather mentioned, with presumably “Dam” and “Sire” or similar terms available, and makes it easier if in the future we can change our wolf poses regardless of their breeding role.

And while it is a bit ot a sidestep, i also agree that pronouns should list beneath a wolf's thumbnail in the denpage! I think that would be nice for a quick overview; if a wolf has no chosen pronouns, i imagine it might default to Sire or Dam depending on what their breedin role is.

As someone who English is not my mother tongue, I don't support the Sire/Dam proposition. While I do get them, not everyone is as proficient in English as I am. And I can see them becoming a problem as Lorwolf expend. For me, accessibility should come before anything else. For example, I still don't understand why pregnant has been changed to expecting. The new wording is less clear to me, and I think there may be cultural differences at play here too. Things should stay as simple and clear as possible, and try to avoid too much “cultural colouring” that could confuse and push away an international audience.

As for the general problem presented here. I think having both sex and gender is a bit redundant. Why not just remove the “sex” line? I mean, the whole breeding/pregnancy is something that we only see in our Dens anyway and is already represented there and by the “physical” aspect of the wolf. It can just stay a variable in DB that is not shown to the player.

By default, the genre would come as she or he, but can be changed by the player as they see fit.

Huge support for making pronouns more visible like having them on the den page. I'm unsure about changing the actual wording. This can easily become confusing for users who aren't fluent in English, and some things like “carrier” just… kinda make me shudder and would make me feel 500x more dysphoric because that entire… functionality can quickly become a trigger for me (especially when it relates to trans men like myself and what a lot of my wolves are inevitably gonna end up being) and I'm not sure I'd be able to play the game with that looming over me.

I wouldn't mind changing “sex” to “breeding role” or “type” or something though. I think that would separate it enough while also keeping it clear for people.

Support for making the pronouns more visible. I do really like the idea of adding them to the den/user profile pages to make them more obvious.

But uh, I'm not a fan of the whole renaming male/female to “sire/dam” thing. It might just be me and the fact my wolves are based off my OCs/are characters, that it feels like calling them sire/dam like breeders just reduces them to their breeding capabilities only if you get what I mean. I don't like it at all (and let's not mention “carrier", that made me feel off in a different way). They're supposed to be sapient/sentient in a way lore-wise as a whole on the site anyways, calling them “sire/dam” feels bad.

Since we also have fox inspired breeds, what if it was tod/dog and vixen instead of sire and dam? Those terms are used outside of breeding, so it takes out some of the potential “ick” aspect of sexing wolves based on breeding role.

Overall full support. I don't have anything against the way it is now personally, but there are some good points in this thread and I like the concept :)

(I'd use canine versions, but I don't know a male term and the female one is usually more of an insult…)