(I don't articulate my thoughts well, so forgive me if this post is kind of a mess or hard to follow at all.)

My issue with this change is mostly over the fact that a cooking re-balance seems SO low priority to me. Campaigning is the biggest draw of the site (imo) and the current system works for the current campaign set up. Meanwhile it seems like the Suggestion forum is overflowing with incredible QoL changes/features that I would love to see implemented with almost no feedback on if any of it is even being considered. I have thought of a suggestion, searched it in forums to prevent a repost, and found the same suggestion from FOUR months ago. I'm sure there have been plenty of suggestions for cooking but logging in to see that my cooked food stores were halved and food that takes hours to grow at 2 stam really has me concerned about the devs priorities in the game, especially ones that negatively impact the site's main draw.

But please, since it seems we are going forward with this over several other things I would love to see done first, please please please fix the bug in gauntlet/campaign that completely wastes stamina by clicking continue/next round several times and not proceeding but still eating the stamina.

I'm in favor of these changes!

First of all, before I go on with my feedback: It feels like a lot of people's estimations of "how long it takes to get x amount of Moonstones" completely ignore the fact that you can trade MS with other players through the Flea Market! I would encourage players feeling strapped for MS to participate in the Flea Market. If anyone needs tips to this end, please feel free to DM me and I can offer advice--maybe we can even trade!

That being said, my concern is that we'll have so many uncooked ingredients that the value of said ingredients just falls through the floor, making them irrelevant both as food AND as crafting materials.

I think decreasing the relevance of raw ingredients as food items could be balanced by increasing their value as crafting materials, as well as making raw ingredients slower to acquire.

When I say slower, I mean for example through longer-term Farming crops. For example, if a casual player can only log in once per day for 15 minutes, they can plant 4 plots of Carrots (which take somewhere in the area of 5 or 6 hours to grow). And even if a non-casual player can log in for 3 hours per day, they can still only plant 4 plots of Carrots during that time. In other words, long cooldown timers may be able to equalize the amount of rewards gained by casual and non-casual players.

Additionally, this kind of interaction could result in a situation where a non-casual player needs more raw ingredients than they can personally produce, and therefore buys raw ingredients--for example, from a casual player who has more raw ingredients than they have time or energy to cook themselves.

In other words, this could give casual players a unique economic position where, even if they can't cook as much food as they need to be able to explore as much as they like, they have the economic leverage to exchange their unneeded raw food for cooked foods from non-casual players who have the time and energy that casual players may not.

Okay, my thoughts.

Nerfing current food is a no-no. Don't touch that. They're fine, and as other people said, things do not need to be dropped under 5 stamina since that's the minimum you need for one click in campaign.

Not to mention that things that take long periods to grow in farming do not need to be reduced.

But yeah, having the "slots" be for each finished food instead of ingredients will go a long way. You know the main reason why I often don't make complex recipes? Because it makes so little, and because they often won't fill either of the cooking activities in the loop (without an expansion, at least). I think I can only make 2 Seafood Feasts at a time? That won't even fill the 0/3 cooking activity.

But making it so the ingredients for complex recipes don't take all those slots? That would be a perfect start. I like the prepping area someone mentioned, that's where the ingredients can go. I would definitely make more complex recipes if I could make more at a time; it would feel more worth it (even though a lot of them take a lot of time to make).

It would also probably be helpful if salt/pepper/milk was easier to obtain. Right now, it's either a low chance to show in the mole market, a low chance in the cooking encounter, and buyable in the cooking shop which is only available at specific times. Perhaps make them droppable from other mobs so they can be farmed more easily (milk from bovius, anyone?) or make them possible rewards in companion bonding. They're needed for a lot and honestly need to be easier to get.

I also had another thought no one else hasn't mentioned yet. Imagine making food that is meant for autofeed. Instead of having that cap be at 100 since that's max stamina for one wolf, how about some food that could feed, lets say, 200 stamina worth? Not worth feeding to one wolf obviously, but if it was in autofeed, it would fill two wolves completely. Dunno what it could be, but it's just a thought.

Making the complex recipes worth more food as well would also probably help a lot. If you want to emphasize cooking, why not increase the food points for some of the items. That's definitely one way to do it.

But please, do not nerf the existing items. It's not needed.

Since I joined the game about a month ago, I can affirm that nerfing the basic materials will have a major impact on new players. When I first started the game, I had a lot of trouble in getting enough foods for the wolves to go through the basic campaign storylines. Although this trouble loosened up once I gave up on doing much of campaigns and grinding on the professions - it still functions as a barrier for new players. I can't grind even when I want to.

Once you are familiar with the game, understand the system, collected a pile of materials, then yes - food or whatever trade becomes manageable (to some degree). Otherwise, it is not - especially for the new players. The food support becomes unsustainable by the time a player is about to get hooked into the game, subsequently lowering their interest as well. This happened to me until I met some friendly users who were willing to donate quite a lot of food supplies. It seems many overlook user generosity playing a big impact here. The issue is that these support system for the newbies should not rely on other users. Players who do not wish to interact with others for giveaways should be able to self-sustain should they choose to.

In my experience, without other users' help, I wouldn't have been able to keep on going with the campaigns and activities - more so as I speak in a position where I ground for the first two weeks to complete achievements. The professions, campaign, gauntlet, they all consume a bunch of stamina - so I had to be stuck at the arena for a while, not knowing how long it'll take for me to collect enough food to do these basic tasks. Raw materials like moth, isopods, and especially simple cooked meat & fish were of great help in growing.

The game system itself should allow new players to self-sustain until they reach a point where they can collect enough currencies and materials for trades. It should not rely on other players' generosities because some newbies won't be able to receive that help during events where people are invested in consuming their own foods to do campaigns / gauntlets etc. It's simply not fair.

If the new users want to grind because they find the game interesting, they should be able to do so without paying for currencies to trade instantly or relying on others' help! Receiving help is, of course, great. But it shouldn't be the main method for new users to adjust to the game - it should simply be an unexpected support system, not an expectation.

As stated above, raw materials and simple recipes were the best method to sustain myself at the start - and still is. I still have to wait for the mole market or farming to be done while being stuck waiting for the food to be cooked with the limited space there is. I shouldn't be "forced" to spend MS on expanding the professions if my priority lies on other functions of the game like CAs or breeds (aesthetic aspects). At the moment, I am playing the game without being forced to do so. Indeed, there are temptations but they are mere temptations - meaning that it provides a choice for the user to decide how to maneuver their currencies. However, it seems the newly updated system will change this. Despite the adjustment to the number of ingredients used per complex recipes - it still won't be as efficient as the simple recipes for the new users.

I agree that the complex recipes should have better perks (stamina) to encourage cooking them. Yet, nerfing the other raw/common materials for the sake of complex recipes doesn't seem right to me - especially in attracting new users to the game. Users will always need foundational resources for them to grow to a point where they can enjoy the more complicated/developed parts of the game. Nerfing other materials will only hinder this foundation.

I hope this aspect will be considered for the game's development in relation to new users.

I hope you don't mind me replying to some of your arguments for the sake of displaying different perspectives

First of all, before I go on with my feedback: It feels like a lot of people's estimations of "how long it takes to get x amount of Moonstones" completely ignore the fact that you can trade MS with other players through the Flea Market! I would encourage players feeling strapped for MS to participate in the Flea Market. If anyone needs tips to this end, please feel free to DM me and I can offer advice--maybe we can even trade!

So while technically the functionality to buy/trade moonstones from others is available, the fact that there are so few actually available is a great indicator that something is wrong with the economy and moonstones are too hard to come by.

That being said, my concern is that we'll have so many uncooked ingredients that the value of said ingredients just falls through the floor, making them irrelevant both as food AND as crafting materials.

I think decreasing the relevance of raw ingredients as food items could be balanced by increasing their value as crafting materials, as well as making raw ingredients slower to acquire.

When I say slower, I mean for example through longer-term Farming crops. For example, if a casual player can only log in once per day for 15 minutes, they can plant 4 plots of Carrots (which take somewhere in the area of 5 or 6 hours to grow). And even if a non-casual player can log in for 3 hours per day, they can still only plant 4 plots of Carrots during that time. In other words, long cooldown timers may be able to equalize the amount of rewards gained by casual and non-casual players.

(I still think there's a place for short cooldown timers, and giving non-casual players additional rewards for their investment in the game, though.)

You need to be level 143 in farming to actually plant 4 carrot seeds at the same time. I consider myself a relatively hard-core player and I have only just reached a level where I am able to plant two simultaneously, and that leaves 2 plots empty because I am flat out of water and compost. So this doesnt really hold up. I agree that having some long cooldown items give great yields so that people don't have to babysit the site to click stuff every few minutes would be very beneficial for those who are only able to log on once or twice a day, but it will need some serious balancing to also actually make it available to the people who need this. (e.g. having also low level hunts and crops available that take a long time and have great rewards)

Additionally, this kind of interaction could result in a situation where a non-casual player needs more raw ingredients than they can personally produce, and therefore buys raw ingredients--for example, from a casual player who has more raw ingredients than they have time or energy to cook themselves.

In other words, this could give casual players a unique economic position where, even if they can't cook as much food as they need to be able to explore as much as they like, they have the economic leverage to exchange their unneeded raw food for cooked foods from non-casual players who have the time and energy that casual players may not.

I don't know, this is a huge infodump, please ping me with any and all feedback!

This assumption is based on the fact that the non-casual players actually have enough cooked foods leftover to sell and casual players have enough uncooked foods leftover to sell. (as opposed to needing it themselves to play). While I definitely agree that economics need to be taken into account and casual players shouldn't be left in the dust, I personally am a bit skeptical whether this is what will actually happen. I think it isn't too farfetched to think that the non-casual players will actually be using the food themselves.

And given the high dependancy on food to play almost all parts of the game (the only parts not needing stamina are companion playing, nesting, the arena and farming), I don't think that having enough food to go around is a bad thing per say. There were always be a need for food and it opens up parts of the game to interact with. I do agree that an economy requires some form of desirable items and limited availability, but I think that food isn't the one that should fulfill that role, as it is too crucial for almost all the other gameplay aspects. And also keep in mind, not everyone wants to have to buy their way into playing the game for one reason or another. Making trading with the community a necessity to play the game is going to scare a lot of people off.

For example, the high level achievement apparel, if it wasn't accountbound, would be a great thing to boost the economy. Having a few specific desireable food items available in low level areas (such as salt) to give the casual or new player a boost because the high level people want that but don't want to visit low level areas, that could work. But food in general shouldn't, in my opinion, be a luxury or rare commodity. It needs to be readily available to all.

Agreeing with what a lot of other people have said already - I definitely support making complex recipes more worthwhile and viable, but please please don't nerf the input or output of simple recipes. As a casual player it's almost impossible for me to keep up with the many and varied types of ingredients for complex recipes and how to get them, and the main way I can get food is through cooking raw meat/fish from campaign.

This game has so many stamina sinks anyway that obtaining food through gameplay doesn't need to be made harder than it already is.

Cooked meat/fish is not OP as it currently is, because the stamina requirements to progress in all other areas are so high overall (e.g. campaign, mining, gauntlet, fishing etc) that it doesn't need to be made any harder, particularly as many of the game tasks are very grindy (not saying that's a bad thing - I actually really like Campaign for example). As it currently stands, cooking simple recipes is the least 'punishing' mechanic on the game, and I strongly think that the current reward from raw meat/fish is balanced overall by the barriers to progression in some of the other professions - which I think works out. (And improving complex recipes, on its own, would also help this.)

I would use complex recipes much more if they were buffed as this announcement is suggesting, but the proposed changes to simple (raw --> cooked meat/fish) would make it much, much harder for me and probably other casual and f2p players to progress with the other areas of the game. I have very little time and mental spoons to play Lorwolf and grind for many different resources, and I suspect I'm not alone in this - so the simple recipes are the only thing really allowing me to get sufficient, easy food to be able to progress meaningfully. I understand that this is different for people who have more time/RL money/etc, but please don't make it harder for casual players and risk alienating a significant proportion of the userbase.

TL.DR I absolutely support making complex recipes more worthwhile, but I’d ask you to please not make simple recipes worse, particularly when so many of the other professions/features are disproportionately difficult for casual players. There's nothing wrong with having one thing comparatively 'easy' for players, particularly with the resource and time requirements for everything else! I really, really do want to give constructive feedback, as I'd love to be able to stick with Lorwolf for the long haul and watch it grow and develop.

I hope you don't mind me replying to some of your arguments for the sake of displaying different perspectives

First of all, before I go on with my feedback: It feels like a lot of people's estimations of "how long it takes to get x amount of Moonstones" completely ignore the fact that you can trade MS with other players through the Flea Market! I would encourage players feeling strapped for MS to participate in the Flea Market. If anyone needs tips to this end, please feel free to DM me and I can offer advice--maybe we can even trade!

At the moment, 1 moonstone costs 34k pebbles, and this is based on the only listing currently on the Flea Market. And there have been many times in the past weeks where I checked the flea market and there were no listings of moonstones at all. There has only been in a single thread in the forums offering moonstones in the past month. Even if we for the moment assume that there are more listings available. expanding my cooking pot the max by buying moonstones of others would still cost me 6 million pebbles. I wouldn't call that accessible. You can ofcourse also sell items for moonstones, but the times I've tried the only result I had was a bunch of expired flea market lists after a week. I see a lot of people offering their wolves or items in exchange for moonstones, and the only times I actually see sales happening is when it is a very nicely coloured wild wolf (not something you can consistently and deliberately farm for, especially as a casual player)

So while technically the functionality to buy/trade moonstones from others is available, the fact that there are so few actually available is a great indicator that something is wrong with the economy and moonstones are too hard to come by.

That being said, my concern is that we'll have so many uncooked ingredients that the value of said ingredients just falls through the floor, making them irrelevant both as food AND as crafting materials.

I think decreasing the relevance of raw ingredients as food items could be balanced by increasing their value as crafting materials, as well as making raw ingredients slower to acquire.

When I say slower, I mean for example through longer-term Farming crops. For example, if a casual player can only log in once per day for 15 minutes, they can plant 4 plots of Carrots (which take somewhere in the area of 5 or 6 hours to grow). And even if a non-casual player can log in for 3 hours per day, they can still only plant 4 plots of Carrots during that time. In other words, long cooldown timers may be able to equalize the amount of rewards gained by casual and non-casual players.

(I still think there's a place for short cooldown timers, and giving non-casual players additional rewards for their investment in the game, though.)

You need to be level 143 in farming to actually plant 4 carrot seeds at the same time. I consider myself a relatively hard-core player and I have only just reached a level where I am able to plant two simultaneously, and that leaves 2 plots empty because I am flat out of water and compost. So this doesnt really hold up. I agree that having some long cooldown items give great yields so that people don't have to babysit the site to click stuff every few minutes would be very beneficial for those who are only able to log on once or twice a day, but it will need some serious balancing to also actually make it available to the people who need this. (e.g. having also low level hunts and crops available that take a long time and have great rewards)

Additionally, this kind of interaction could result in a situation where a non-casual player needs more raw ingredients than they can personally produce, and therefore buys raw ingredients--for example, from a casual player who has more raw ingredients than they have time or energy to cook themselves.

In other words, this could give casual players a unique economic position where, even if they can't cook as much food as they need to be able to explore as much as they like, they have the economic leverage to exchange their unneeded raw food for cooked foods from non-casual players who have the time and energy that casual players may not.

I don't know, this is a huge infodump, please ping me with any and all feedback!

This assumption is based on the fact that the non-casual players actually have enough cooked foods leftover to sell and casual players have enough uncooked foods leftover to sell. (as opposed to needing it themselves to play). While I definitely agree that economics need to be taken into account and casual players shouldn't be left in the dust, I personally am a bit skeptical whether this is what will actually happen. I think it isn't too farfetched to think that the non-casual players will actually be using the food themselves.

And given the high dependancy on food to play almost all parts of the game (the only parts not needing stamina are companion playing, nesting, the arena and farming), I don't think that having enough food to go around is a bad thing per say. There were always be a need for food and it opens up parts of the game to interact with. I do agree that an economy requires some form of desirable items and limited availability, but I think that food isn't the one that should fulfill that role, as it is too crucial for almost all the other gameplay aspects. And also keep in mind, not everyone wants to have to buy their way into playing the game for one reason or another. Making trading with the community a necessity to play the game is going to scare a lot of people off.

For example, the high level achievement apparel, if it wasn't accountbound, would be a great thing to boost the economy. Having a few specific desireable food items available in low level areas (such as salt) to give the casual or new player a boost because the high level people want that but don't want to visit low level areas, that could work. But food in general shouldn't, in my opinion, be a luxury or rare commodity. It needs to be readily available to all.